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March 03, 2010

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Stuart

Speaking as a person that struggles with mental illness (including a fairly healthy dose of suicidal ideation) I am sick to death of hearing people complain about having their feelings hurt by someone because they didn't kill themselves with enough consideration for others.

Anybody who thinks that you rationally decide to jump 8 stories and eat pavement needs to wise up. If he could think clearly and rationally, don't you think the first thing he would have done is *not* jumped, rather than done a second draft on his note to get the best reception from people he obviously wasn't able to communicate with anyway?

John

It's just sad no matter how or why he did it. Suicide is a permanent solution to what is often a temporary problem. I personally don't care if he was gay or not...he was young and he ended his life..those are all the facts that should be our business.

Matthew Rettenmund

Stuart: I don't think it's wrong for people to be horrified by what he did and how he did it, even as they're also completely sympathetic to it.

John: I think the possibility of his being gay is of interest not in a gossipy way and more as a point of discussion; gay kids commit suicide at a much higher level than straight kids, and religion can be (not always, but can be) a factor.

John

Matthew, my reaction to your comment on how Michael killed himself isn't so much "how dare you be horrified" so much as, there's no nice way to commit suicide. To point out the "thoughtless" way he killed himself, implies judgement of him as "uncaring".

The truth of the situation is, if someone holds their own life in such low regard, indeed, has such low self-esteem - they can't think of others. You can only love others if you love yourself (trite but true). Therefore, to imply that Michael should have been more considerate, rather misses the reality of the situation, I think.

Matthew Rettenmund

John: I know what you're saying, and I don't think suicide in general = rational = thoughtless. But people DO, in fact, commit suicide in different ways, ways that sometimes reflect their state of mind regarding themselves and regarding how they view others.

In this case, the guy cared to leave a note to a person he regarded as his only friend in L.A., but didn't care to do so for his family. Clearly that says something. It's not insignificant.

Other people might communicate how they feel by shooting family members and then themselves, or conversely by attempting to kill themselves in a way that won't cause a lot of damage to a home or that won't be quite AS disturbing for the person who finds them (taking pills vs. blowing your own head off).

Dan Cobb

What a snake pit the Mormon religion must be! Just like all other religions that teach people to love CONDITIONALLY. The born-agains are the same way... orthodox... many Catholics...etc.
C'mon, let's face it: If the love is conditional, it's not love at all. I feel bad for people who are raised in families that tacitly tell their children: I will only love you if you 1) believe in the same religion I do; 2) have the same sexual orientation I have; 3) believe the same political things; 4) have the same attitude about what is and is not respectable...etc.
These people have never known selfless love. It's really too bad.

mike

when will ALL you people and the news rags leave this poor woman alone?

Suicide is a tragedy no matter the ill-founded reasoning for it.

Marie Osmond, as far as I can tell, has NEVER been an enemy of the LGBT community, leave her ALONE!

Stop buying the rags that try and invade her privacy.

Write letters to the editor of newspapers and blogs that promote these speculations to drive their own sales and popularity!

This gossip is not NEWS and therefore NONE OF YOUR F'ing business!

When are we as a nation going to get over the bad habit of prying into the private lives of celebrities? Nosing around their tragedies and imperfections? Gossiping like little pre-teen girls?

Spend that time and energy fixing your own PATHETIC lives!

Kevin Jones

My husband committed suicide and there is nothing that he could have done to soften the blow. He wrote notes, he paid off all his debts, he even left the door open for the person he knew would find him - Even with all that planning, he was mentally ill when he made the decision to end his own life - he wasn't thinking clearly, he was in a well of depression. It really is thoughtless of you to make these suppostions about someone who obviously fought terrible personal demons and who you didn't even know.

Matthew Rettenmund

Mike: "Pathetic" is the right word, but it's probably more fitting for your little shit fit. There is no such thing as a cure for gossip, and certainly not for celebrity gossip. There would be no such thing as celebrities WITHOUT gossip, and without knowing all about (and wanting to know all about) their lives. Sure, lines in the sand can and should be drawn, however, Marie Osmond is not a celebrity who has drawn them—she has opened up (for money) and written extensively on her private life. This does not mean she does not deserve sympathy; I'm not much of an Osmond fan, but definitely I do feel bad about her tragic loss. But it does mean that your argument about privacy is meaningless.

Frank L

I would agree with the above commenters who wonder why you seem to think that there's a polite, non-messy, considerate way to commit suicide. Nitpicking in public about the propriety of the methods that a person chooses to end his life is a little bit over the edge, isn't it?

Matthew Rettenmund

Kevin: Sorry for your loss. I think we're veering off topic now, but again, clearly anyone taking their own life due to depression (as opposed to doing it to escape the pain of a terminal illness) isn't thinking "right". However, the way your husband committed suicide sounds as if he were thinking about you and others, even if he had a damaged vision of his own self. I'm not sure why you or others would feel that it's in any way disrespectful or wrong to infer from a person's actions what they may have been thinking; doesn't mean the inference is always correct, but I think we all infer on a daily basis meanings derived from the behavior of others. Usually, it's right, sometimes, it's not, sometimes it's not because we have biases. But I'll say again that if someone commits suicide in such a way that they have attempted to soften the blow for those around them, even if as you say (and I can only imagine, but I'm sure I'd agree with you were I in your place) there is no way to truly make something like that "not as bad," then it seems very fair to me for us to think that he or she had been thoughtful and mindful of the impact of his or her actions before the fact. And if someone deliberately commits suicide in a spectacular way, and/or fails to leave a note, etc., things can be fairly inferred from that as well. (One would have to completely lack curiosity about the human mind to not make some fairly basic assumptions about someone who decides to kill himself by jumping off a roof—obviously this is a person who is SERIOUS about wanting to die, and is someone not thinking of the fact that people who know him and love him might be confronted with the aftermath, etc.

Sorry that this has touched a nerve, but I respectfully submit that it's not thoughtless for me to observe that someone who commits suicide in this way with no note for family members did so thoughtlessly. He was mentally ill, but he was a functioning person with reasoning abilities and emotions, and he chose his own death methodically. I'm sure plenty of professionals who are involved with this case and who didn't know him personally will make their own judgments; all will be more qualified than mine, but I would be surprised if any of them didn't infer from his actions that he slighted his family intentionally.

Matthew Rettenmund

Frank L.: No, I don't think it's over the edge to talk about suicide and how it's committed. I think it's a common part of life (and death) and if people talked more about it it would only be helpful. I have nothing but sympathy for survivors whose loved one has done it, and I'm also highly sympathetic to people who are mentally ill and who commit suicide. I didn't make light of this event (as many will), but I do find it very interesting, and no amount of tsk-tsking will persuade me that it's wrong to learn about how and why people commit suicide. I will say I think there are probably a great many people out there who think people who commit suicide are gutless and undeserving of sympathy; those are probably the people I'd be more likely to spend my time criticizing.

Robert

Matthew you are the voice of reason. I misunderstood your point of view when you first posted the story but now I understand and I agree with your view on this tragic story.

I truly hope Michael is at peace and my heart goes out to all people who have lost family and friends to suicides.

Tom

It just makes me sad that any young man - gay, straight, transgender, alone - leaves us behind. We're worse off for it. What can be done?

Vincent

I think Matt isn't judging Osmond's son so much as the fashion of the act itself. Although the fact that he had to kill himself is horrible, my heart breaks just a little bit more if he indeed did not leave any kind of note to his mother and the rest of the family. But, the whole thing is just painful and sad.

Horserotorvator

As someone who lost a best friend, and hero (she was a firefighter) to a tragic accident, it's hard to have empathy for people who take their own lives. I've learned to understand the extreme pain someone who takes his or her own life must be suffering under. But at the same time, I still feel resentment and have a hard time with the selfishness that such an act necessarily exhibits.

The real enemy here is intolerance, primarily religion-based. Not just the Mormons, but all of the world's major religions. "Faith" plays no roll in my life, but I understand it's really important to many people. I don't get it, but I recognize it. The real tragedy is that people who take their own lives don't know there's a whole world out there willing to welcome them without judgment and offer an alternative family to supplant the one that rejects them. In my opinion most religion is despicable. It demonizes outsiders who don't fit within its cultish, dogmatic framework. But really its the religious mind slaves who are to blame, who use religion to justify their bigotry. To quote Mencken: "if we assume that man is actually made in the image of god, we are forced into the impossible conclusion that god is a coward, an idiot and a bounder."

There should be no illusion it was the Mormon religion poisoned this young man's mind and led hime to the belief he had no other option but to take his own life.

carol

Marie Osmond has a daughter who is gay, and she loves and supports her. She might not like her daughters choices, but knows they are hers to make.
Although the LDS church does not support the gay lifestyle it also doesn't support extra martial affairs between straight people. So shut up!!!

Matthew Rettenmund

Carol: You can not seriously compare the Mormons' lack of support for affairs with their explicit, cash-fueled demonizaton of gay people.

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