Who's That Boy?

The bellhop who doesn't ring a bell

Via Kenneth In The (212): As an update to my link to Reid Rosefelt's Madonna remembrance, take note that Madonna's co-star and screen-test partner Tim Ransom has fond memories from 1985 but bitter memories from about 2000.

Do stories like this sour you on Madonna if you accept them as 100% objectively true (not that Tim's sounds fake)? Or is Madonna now like Joan Crawford, someone you can marvel at and adore while compartmentalizing any character flaws?

Tim (right) with Madonna, Jellybean & Reid Rosefelt (left) @ the rockstar-soaked Amadeus party at Limelight

Comments

[Daryl D]

Oh come on. It's on the Internet on a blog. Therefore, IT MUST BE TRUE! There must be nothing more to the story and since it is on the Internet posted in a blog, we have to take this man's word for it. I'm throwing out every single Madonna CD I have ever owned!

[Matthew Rettenmund]

@Daryl: I didn't mean it that way...I just wondered what people's thresholds for negative stories are; like, do you believe a story like this (which comes from people we know knew Madonna personally), do you believe it but (as you say) assume it's not the whole story, do you tend to disbelieve it, or do you believe it and does it ever accumulate in your mind and chip away at your affection for a star? Not even necessarily just Madonna. My thought was more how Joan Crawford's shocking shortcomings haven't kept me from loving her as a star, and loving her as a star hasn't kept me from assuming most of the stories about her infamous shortcomings are true. And yet with Madonna, if I thought she beat her kids, it'd probably kill my affection for her dead pretty fast. Maybe "historical" figures get more of a pass?

[Denis]

Nah... I mean, how many stories have there been over the last 25 years about Madonna being rather nasty to someone? The woman probably has walls up thicker than the Hoover Dam. I expect her to be cool, aloof, and kinda bitchy... that's also why I wouldn't really want to meet her.

That said, she seems to have mellowed recently and appears on the surface at least to be a lot more open and chatty and less, "Look at me and my bodyguards will taze you!"

[Sam]

She resurrects a long dead religion that she says has made her a better person and then fails to follow it!
Thats what blows me away.

[Daryl D]

I didn't mean sarcasm at your post Matt. It's actually a thoughtful one. I was spoofing the fact that people can write anything on the Internet and have it taken seriously.

I used to work as a video assist assistant and my company worked on Natural Born Killers (I appear in the film too:)with a lot of the same people that worked on A League of Their Own in Chicago two years earlier. Of course, I tried to get work on A League of Their Own but was turned down--so I ended up stalking Madonna the whole summer.

Anyhow, the one story that stuck with me(from a girl who died before production completed ironically) is how poorly the extras were being treated at Wrigley Field on the set of ALOTO. Madonna walked by the holding area and saw how tired, hungry and desperate the extras looked. She ordered several deep dish pizzas from a place called My Pie (or something like that..it was on Clark Street)and had them sent to the holding area where the extras were.

When I worked as a body double in the television show The Untouchables, I talked to William Forsythe several times. He HATED Madonna. He said extras were fired just for asking her for an autograph. She always went back to her trailer(or Warren's)and never spent time with the cast. Danny Aiello's son also worked on The Untouchables and said his dad thought Madonna was a c**t.

[Denis]

Look, I think the Kabbalah stuff is a bunch of $#%@, but in Madonna's defense, I think she's really struggled to not be so bitchy... and I do think her attitude towards her fans and the world in general has "improved," even if she isn't perfect. I'm more than willing to give Madonna a pass, most of the time. But as Matt said, there are limits. If Rocco writes a tell all saying she was a monster mother, then my opinion of her would change. HOWEVER, when I read stories about Christina Aguilera being a huge cunt to just about everyone, I'm completely turned off... I'm not entirely sure why I hold her to a different standard.

[Matthew Rettenmund]

@Daryl: No offense taken! Interesting stories. Remember Aiello did an anti-Madonna parody "Madonna Don't Preach" because he's a staunch Catholic and possibly that informed his hatred of Madonna. Or she was a big brat on her music-video set.

@Denis & @Sam: I think of Kabbalah every time I hear random tale of Madonna terrorizing someone, lol.

@Denis: I feel the same way...I think I hold Christina and others to a higher standard because I'm balls-deep in Madonna at this point; I started admiring and liking her when I was young, so I was more impressionable and the impression is now so cemented...it's difficult to be wowed when you're older.

[Dick Vane]

6:17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E8DixLrh-E

[David]

@Matt: that wasn't Danny Aiello in that hideous Madonna Don't Preach parody that they showed clips of in the original M Rockumentary. It was some stupid priest.

These kinds of stories don't really have an effect on me as a fan... I'm not surprised Madonna didn't remember him, or that she pointedly refused to acknowledge him. What's left out of his story is HER perspective. How many times do you think somebody has worked on something with her, felt they formed a bond...and then been left in the dust? I think it's less about her alleged trampling of all her relationships on her way to "the top" and more about a woman who meets thousands and thousands of people, lives and works at a breakneck pace and can't be expected to remember what was a few fun months in 1984.

I feel bad for him, because I'm sure he was expecting her to hug him, eyes filled with tears and mouth agape at how little he'd changed...but in reality she was at a Xmas party almost 20 years after the fact and wasn't interested in jogging her memory for a brief encounter. Fair enough, IMO.

[Matthew Rettenmund]

@David: Correction—I was referring to "Papa Only Wants the Best For You," which Aiello did record and perform in. Which was pretty gross considering he'd just gotten lots of fab exposure in her video and was then glomming onto the abortion debate over it.

I'm not sure I can be as brusque about this encounter; I'm not saying Madonna is the cunt of all times or that Tim is a liar; I think both perspectives could be valid and this is just another piece of (interesting!) info.

The thing that tilts me toward Tim is that fans know they hung out, like hung out a lot, during the making of DSS. It wasn't a casual, "Oh, hey, I was an extra in this movie with you..." kinda thang. And while it's not gasp-inducing not to instantly recognize someone 16 years after the fact, it was kinda sad that she seemed unwilling to even engage. Probably she is just not going to bother because there are many fakes out there. Sad for him, though. And if she really just didn't want to engage, a, "I'm really sorry, but I can't remember you—I wish I did, dear," always works well in that situation! :0) I mean, Tim is some kind of beautiful stranger!

[Just Sayin]

A couple of years ago Gwen Stefani told Vogue that she was having dinner with Madonna and Guy Ritchie in London. She told Madonna she was working on a dance album and Madonna rolled her eyes at her.

Tori Amos related the story of another famous female musician who saw Madonna at an airport and told her what a fan she was and how much her music meant to her. Madonna responded by looking at this singer's shoes and saying "Those are so last season."

And didn't she allegedly ask Rosanna Arquette, "Wouldn't you kill to be me for 10 minutes?" ... which I personally thought was awesome.

Overall though, as much as I love and worship her, I'm pretty sure I would never approach her if I saw her anywhere. I have no doubt that she probably is a total cunt to people she has no use for.

[Kevin]

@Matt I agree. I don't think it was horrible that she didn't remember him (you could probably fill an encyclopedia with all the people she's run across), but that she didn't even TRY to remember him, or at least attempt to spare his feelings a bit.

And I'm sure age is always a factor in holding your favorite artists to a different behavior standard. I'm 24 and I've been completely turned off by Lauryn Hill's actions over the last few months (showing up hours late, berating her band/audience etc.) and I've been a fan since she was with the Fugees.

But then again, I still hold a soft spot for Whitney, so who knows lol.

[Kevin]

Oops I meant to say "not" sure age is a factor:).

[Bossy Bottom]

I am sure that Madonna, and other massive stars, get irritated by fans who try to impose themselves or try to take up a lot of the celebrity's time. Any major celebrity is going to have to evolve strategies for brushing people off. Madonna seems to have developed an unnecessarily acid manner and sharp tongue as a means of getting rid of pesky fans. I would love to see Madonna's behavior if a major Hollywood director or star introduced himself to her at a party. She would probably be all fawning graciousness.

[Trey]

I grew up with Madonna in our culture, but a bit younger than Kenneth or Matt (but older than the Spears generation), but I really don't have the obsession that some people do. I think she is amazing and I respect her, but I also think she has a really hard personality. I definitely do not want to meet her, but I would completely see her on tour. I do not get though why to like her she has to be your best friend. She is not. She is Madonna. She is an icon, and was brilliant at what she did, and part of that was the job of maintaing an iconic presence. She is not your Mom or your best gf. She is most likely a very type A woman who is hard to be around. And that is totally ok.

[Charley]

Well... She didn't get as far as she did being nice to a lot of people. Otherwise she would be sharing a bill with Debbie Boone and Sheena Easton in some casino somewhere. It doesn't turn me off persay to hear these things about the off putting things she says, I just think these stories seem to always apply to powerful women, never men.

I heard a story of when Josh Grobin was introduced to Celine Dion, and he said "Nice to meet you Miss Dion" and she turned and tapped on his shirt and said "That shirt is going to read yellow on television", and walked away.

I think the diva stories are only a piece of what may happen, because honestly, we don't as a people like to hear "Oh she's so nice" or 'She was so giving when I met her". We want to hear the cunty stories (as a collective, not individually pointing this out).

As far as M goes, it's probably 50/50. Just like everyone else in the world...

[Nonplussed]

I think the problem is that she simply is needlessly rude and unpleasant, there's nothing in her background to suggest any great social sophistication or any incentive to develop it; no noblesse oblige or grace, it's part of her persona. That said, why would she remember him? She's met a lot of people since. In any case, the general rule is never meet your heroes.

[Giulio]

Stars are human beings, so they are not one dimensional. Madonna is proven to be a sweet and loving person as much as she is known to having been(or be) a bitch sometimes.

Stories detailing either one or the other side of her personality do not alter my opinion on her and her work. They just show some humanity, which should not be surprising, unless you are idolizing a poster on the wall despite having left high school 15 years ago.

[Bryan]

People, have you ever heard of IRONY??? Good Lord, Madonna chose BITCH as her mo and has stuck with it. I think it is HILARIOUS but in no way take it seriously. Madonna plays THE BITCH. It's very funny. It's even more funny that all these people that think they are entitled to some sort of recognition don't see the humor in it!!!!

p.s. This doesn't mean I think Madonna's bitch persona is a facade for a sweet, empathic woman. Hell no, she really is a bitch with a full blown personality disorder but she amplifies it to the people around her in a funny way.

[Matthew Rettenmund]

@Bryan: I've heard of irony, but there's nothing ironic about being unnecessarily mean. I can see why fans would be like "I love this bitch!" over bitchy stories, but I think a person who knew her well, partied with her, was "adored" by her (according to another witness), would feel hurt to be not only forgotten but pointedly dismissed. Not the end of the world, but not sure I can blame him for not finding it hilarious in that moment...?

[Bernadette]

I guess this really is a blog from a gay man only for gay men. Otherwise, it would be nice to at least expect from the blog owner who uses a tag called 'feminism' to be able to refrain from using misogynistic slurs. Is the word 'cunt' a term of endearment among faggots? Has it become so normal to use that word when describing a woman? I think I should really stop being interested in reading topics related to gay people. It makes me want to fight for gay rights even less every time I have to read how I, as a woman, are respected or rather disprespected in the gay men community.
I think reading the inhumane and outrageous comments about women on datalounge should have been a hint. Well, live and learn.

[Matthew Rettenmund]

@Bernadette: Sorry you were offended. "Cunt" is not misogynistic in England, and I think it's really leaked into American gay slanguage in the same regard. There is NO DOUBT that many gay men jump in with "cunt!" as a slur against a disagreeable female (Sarah Palin comes to mind), and that's regrettable. But in discussing a beloved divas "cunty" behavior, I do think there is a degree of affection and even ownership of the word.

Sorry you don't feel that way, and I appreciate your input.

[Reid Rosefelt]

While Tim felt dissed by Madonna, I didn't personally feel that way about her not remembering me. It's very possible that with all the people she's met, she did in fact forget me. Or there are too many people who expect something out of her,and this is the way she deals.

I also don't know any more about how she behaved before or after I knew her than anybody else does. I just know the way she was at that time. She had a lot of attitude. Either you could deal with it or you couldn't. I liked her and most people on the set liked her. Tim Ransom was nuts about her and she was crazy about him.

In my two posts I just tried to create as honest a picture of the young woman I knew for a few months so long ago. I was a big fan of her then and I'm a big fan of her now.

[Matthew Rettenmund]

@Reid: You have a very healthy ego in order not to be offended; I'm sure people who knew her/interacted with her less than you did would have been angry for life. I do feel bad for Tim's experience because like you alluded, she and Tim hung out.

I loved your posts, which were fair.

[Bryan]

@Matthew. Thanks for the reply and I agree in part. Self serving mega stars like Madonna become mega stars because they are using most of the relationships to serve them in the moment. They are looking to the future and understand the context of each relationship in it's time and place. They can't get bogged down in "minor" relationships -- no time for that. When stars are "nice" I think it's a bonus but most are being eaten alive by the expectation of all the people around them. It sounds like Madonna has created some healthy boundries that bite!

Madonna's put down humor is FUNNY and if I were in the same position and she said that to me, I would high five her and laugh my butt off. In other words -- the Queen Has Spoken. I might feel differently if I was a life long friend or her child, but I imagine she keeps the majority of the people in her life on the defense and kissing her butt.